Podcast Episode “Hidden Gems” in Japan ??!!!

0:05

Welcome to the Japan Travel Pros podcast.

We're glad you're here.

I want to let you know we made a kind of different episode for you this time.

We're not answering your questions per SE.

Wanted to turn it around and see if we can actually help you ask a better question.

0:22

Now I know what you're thinking.

Who is Ari to say?

What's better?

Well, just to tease it for you, I'm going to start off this episode by making an apology and giving you a confession.

Sound good?

Let's get started.

Hey, it's Aria Japan Travel Pros.

0:48

Thanks for checking in.

We're here in studio with producer Aki.

Say hi, Aki.

Hi, Konichiwa.

Konichiwa.

And as promised in the cold open, I want to start off right away with an apology.

The title Hidden Gems in Japan is admittedly a little bit click baity, isn't it?

1:09

We put a little click bait in that title and I have to apologize.

But hear me out.

People are still asking this question.

Where can I find hidden gems in Japan?

And so we're kind of answering that.

We could have given you a better question, but we wanted you to listen.

1:26

So as I said, this is an apology and a confession because if you're asking the question, where can I find hidden gems in Japan?

Did you start off asking that question or do you keep hearing this phrase over and over again?

1:42

Maybe you've seen it on TikTok or on Instagram Stories.

Maybe you've read about it in blogs, or maybe even a chatty chatbot AI out there is suggesting, hey, go find some hidden gems in Japan.

Well, we might be part of the problem.

Yeah, I just give me a face.

1:58

But no, no, it's I think, I think it's possible that we could be here at Japan travel pros in our own small but special way.

We might be part of the problem because I will confess, we also have used the phrase hidden gems when it comes to content.

2:14

But over time, we realize when people are asking for a hidden gem, they're not all asking for the same thing.

Let's rephrase the question.

Whether it's somebody sending us a message or somebody asking us on a call, they'll say, hey, Aki, hey, Ari, where can I find hidden gems in Japan?

2:33

Let's address what they're really looking for.

We all have access to the same information, which is basically all the information in the world.

So if that's true, then how could anything really be hidden when you think about it?

2:49

And again, I want to give credit, I don't think you're really looking for something that's hidden.

But behind that phrase are some very legitimate goals.

Somebody might be saying hidden gems, but they're what they're really looking for is fewer crowds.

3:05

And really, when we think about it, what do tourists really want?

They want to be away from other tourists.

I know it's ironic, right?

It's like sitting in traffic saying, wow, this traffic sucks when in fact, we are part of the traffic.

Aki and I live in Japan.

When we travel outside of our hometown, we are also tourists in this country.

3:24

So who are we to say we should go to a place and not be surrounded by tourists?

Let's talk about some of the other things that that hidden gems might mean.

When people are saying, hey, I want a hidden gem, maybe they're asking for something memorable, something that they didn't see on Tiktok.

Say if it's on Tiktok, if it's on Instagram, it's not hidden.

3:43

Can't be another thing that people are asking for is somewhere or something authentic.

That's a great word to start searching for is what is authentic.

Now that does open up a bit of a rabbit hole in terms of where do we find authentic?

3:59

Who's to say what is authentic?

And we can have a whole other conversation on a whole other episode.

But in this episode, I just want to address that as being a fair question.

Other people, when they're asking for hidden gems, they're looking for something personal.

For example, if you listen to the episode we had a few episodes back with Reese San, he operates a small B and BA small inn in a small city well off the tourist route.

4:25

And if you want to call that a hidden gem, I'm OK with that.

It's hidden out in the open.

It's hidden plain sight.

It's personal.

And that's what a lot of travelers are searching.

They're searching for something authentic and something personal, something where they can make a connection.

I I think that's a good goal.

4:42

And getting back to what we said about something that you'll remember.

What do people remember the most?

It's the people and it's the stories.

It's the stories that you make and experience in your travels.

And if hidden gem means that I'm down with hidden gems, in your mind, when you ask for a hidden gem, what are you looking for?

5:04

That's the most important thing.

For example, there are many places in Japan that are certainly not considered hidden amongst Japanese people.

This year, Aki, we took the resort Shirakami train from Almori to Akita.

Beautiful 5 hour train ride.

5:20

Bucolic idyllic scenery through the countryside.

We went through apple orchards.

We went along the coast.

Now that might be a hidden gem to a lot of you.

You might not be familiar with that train if you've never heard about before.

At least it is until now, a hidden gem to you.

5:38

But I think what we are looking for when we travel, and this is ourselves included, I think what we're looking for is meaningful experiences.

So why do people ask for hidden gems?

5:57

They're looking for fewer crowds.

They're looking for some place or something authentic, they're looking for a memorable experience, and they're looking for something different.

If you want to call it a hidden gem or something off the beaten path or something tucked away and a little more local, we don't need a label.

6:14

Whatever that is, we want to help you find it.

Let's address, first of all, why it has a short shelf life.

Think about it when content is produced.

Before we had social media, travel was largely informed by guidebooks.

6:30

The journey was at least a year, maybe a year and a half, maybe 2 years from the time the pen first went on paper.

Chances are by the time you're reading something in the guidebook, something that was called a hidden gem might not be any more realistically.

Not to mention those guidebooks kept getting recycled year after year after year old wine in new bottles, as it were.

6:51

Social media has kind of replaced the guidebooks.

And the good news is social media has a shorter journey from the time the content is created to the time it is distributed to your screen.

The bad news is it also has a shorter shelf life because once it hits the screen, everybody sees it and everybody wants to go there.

7:09

And I think a great example of where we're seeing this is in Kyoto.

We're seeing in many places in Japan, let's be honest.

But in Kyoto, for sure, Kyoto has the most over tourism in Japan.

And there are places that social media might still call a hidden gem.

AI might still tell you it's a hidden gem.

7:27

By the time you get there, it might be full of tourists.

Are we telling you not to go there, by the way?

Absolutely not, because it might still be a gem.

So let's separate these two words.

Some place that's no longer hidden could still be great and you should still go there.

I'm going to get to that a little bit more in terms of what to target and what to avoid.

7:46

We're to come back to that.

We know that the information has a shelf life.

Ironically, the better somebody is at finding hidden gems, the faster they stop being hidden.

We've done a little research here at Japan Travel Pros and we've compiled a list of not the best hidden gems in Japan, but the so-called hidden gems that get mentioned the most.

8:10

And the first one on the list, guess where it is?

Aki.

Where do you think it is?

Uji.

Uji.

Oh, the the home of tea just outside Kyoto in in Kyoto prefecture.

Lovely place, isn't it, Uji?

Yeah, Yeah, it's great.

One of the oldest tea houses in the world is in Uji.

8:26

Beautiful temple, the Biodo in which oddly enough in the tea capital Japan has a Starbucks across the street.

And that kind of informs the answer to the question here.

Is Uji a hidden gem?

No, no, no, no, no.

Just about two years ago this time, that was our, that was the last time we were in Uji.

8:44

And already it was very crowded on a very hot day and it was during the Obon season in Japan.

So it there were some additional domestic travelers there, although I think we can say anecdotally, more than half of the visitors in town that day were from overseas.

9:05

We saw a line at one of the famous tea houses, the kind of place where you have to put your name on a list, get a number and they advise what the wait time is.

And do you remember at about 10:00 AM how long the wait was?

3 hours.

Yeah.

At 10:00 AM, if you showed up, if you left Kyoto Station, for example, in half an hour or so, you got to to Uji and you thought, OK, we'll go in and we'll have some, some matcha.

9:27

You'll wait three hours.

Not a hidden gem, folks.

I don't think we can call it a hidden gem at this point.

Now, is Ari telling you not to go to Uji?

Not at all.

I think it's still a gem and I think you should go.

But you have to decide what your priorities are.

OK #2 on the list in terms of worst kept secrets of Japan's hidden gems #2 is Shirakawa goal.

9:47

Oh yeah, right.

Hockey, that is.

Now that's a great place.

If you're not familiar with it, it's between Kanazawa and Takayama.

Whether you want to call this the Silver Route or a new extension of the Golden Route, if you go in the daytime especially, it will be packed.

People report seeing a sea of tripods, photographers and content creators doing their thing in Shirakawa.

10:10

Go.

By the way, we're talking about the place you've probably seen in photos.

Maybe it was snow covered at the time.

Maybe it was night time.

Maybe it looked like something out of a Christmas card.

It has these A-frame thatch roof houses.

Gashozukuri is the phrase in Japanese.

It's basically a folk village.

10:25

But Shirakawa go super popular.

You can do it as a date trip from Kanazawa.

You can do it as a date trip on the way between Kanazawa and Takayama in either direction.

Those are #2 and #6 on this list.

We were in Kanazawa last year again, and we're going again to Takayama next month, as a matter of fact.

10:43

So we like to continue to go back to these places.

We continue to send clients back to these places.

We would never tell them that these are a hidden gem Kanazawa has.

OK, you'll sometimes hear it called a little Kyoto.

Again, not a phrase we would use, but you might hear it that way.

And who are we to say that that's wrong?

10:59

Kanazawa has two separate Old Town districts.

There's the Higashi Chaya district and there is the Nagamachi district.

One of those is called the Old Geisha quarter.

One of those is called a Samurai quarter.

And they're both great.

They're great to walk around.

And if you go early in the day or maybe a bit late in the day, you'll you'll avoid some of the crowds and some of the day trippers.

11:19

But again, these are no longer hidden gems.

But I do think it's a great place to spend 2 or maybe even 3 nights.

If you're spending three nights, make a day trip to Shirakala.

Go.

Again, none of these are hidden gems, but they are gems.

Highly recommend that you go.

If you're interested in seeing something different, something that doesn't look like Tokyo or Kyoto or Osaka, these places are great.

11:40

Next on this list, Naoshima, the art island.

No longer a secret, no longer a hidden gem.

But if you're interested in art and if you want to spend the night in an Art Museum, for example, or some interesting lodging with a bit of an island vibe going on, great place.

Plan well ahead cause the secret's out.

11:57

You'll definitely have to plan probably months ahead of time, depending on the season, months ahead of time for your lodging, and also plan ahead to know which days that things are open or closed because there are a couple of days of the week when you probably don't want to be in Nelashima.

Koiyasan.

Koiyasan is another one on this list.

12:14

UNESCO World Heritage Site, Sacred Mountain Retreat, a complex of mountain temples, and you can stay in a temple, you can stay overnight, you can visit as a day trip, you can stay in hotels or other lodging nearby.

There are different ways to do it.

Is it a hidden gem?

No, it just happens to be off the beaten path, but it's still great.

12:33

Some other places on this list that we often hear called hidden gems.

Ginzan Onsen.

Now this is an interesting 1.

I don't think it's a hidden gem, but I will say even among our clients here at Japan Travel pros, not a lot of people go there because it requires effort.

12:50

You can't get there on the bullet train.

By the way, you can't get to Koyasan either on the bullet train.

I'm not a number of these other places, but Ginzan Onsen is a classic onsen town.

It is a Hot Springs resort.

It was the inspiration of a Ghibli movie called Spirited Away.

13:06

If you visit in the winter, it's even a bonus.

It'll have snow and you'll see it at night time when it's all lit up.

But any time of year is good.

But it's tricky.

It's tough to get to.

It's a 3 to 4 hour journey from Tokyo.

The bullet train doesn't go there.

Actually, the train doesn't go there.

You're not going to take a train to this place.

13:23

And that's why these some of these places started to get called hidden gems because even when the Japan Rail Pass was a good deal, it's not anymore.

By the way, even when it was a good deal, not a lot of people went to it because the the train can only get you so far.

That's why they were called hidden gems And they're still gems, I want to say.

13:42

And a lot of these places, yes, you have to plan ahead for Ginzan Onsen, particularly at at high season.

And it's popular among Japanese visitors and international visitors alike.

But still definitely recommend it.

Another one on the list, the Nakasindo Trail.

13:58

Now there are different sections of this is the old postal trail in Japan and you can experience it in different places.

But the most popular place is in the Kiso Valley in the stretch from villages from Magome to Tsumago.

You could hike in between the villages.

You've probably seen this on YouTube or elsewhere on social media.

14:16

It's great.

You can do it as a day trip from Nagoya.

We know people who have done that recently, for example.

Or you can stay overnight either in one of these small towns if you plan ahead, or further down the valley in a town called Nakatsugawa.

Are these hidden gems?

No, no, we can't call it that, but they're still great and we highly recommend it.

14:36

We could go on.

The list goes on.

Just want to give you some examples of what are called hidden gems.

And all of these up until now, we haven't said, you know what, you shouldn't bother going there, planning a trip to Japan.

14:51

Well, that's exciting and if we're being honest, a little overwhelming, isn't it?

You know, there's no shortage of information out there.

And the challenge, well, the challenge usually isn't finding more information, is it?

Now?

It's figuring out what actually fits the kind of trip that you want to have.

15:11

Well, that's what we do here at Japan Travel Pros.

Whether you just want a second set of eyes on your itinerary or maybe you're looking for more in depth planning support, we work with independent travelers from around the world to help you build trips that fit your interests, your priorities, and your travel style.

15:29

Want to learn more?

Head on over to japantravelpros.com/plan.

Hey, we're back.

What people are really asking for is I want to go somewhere special.

I want to go somewhere memorable.

I want to go somewhere that's authentically Japanese, that's real, and I'm not going to feel like I I was in a tourist trap.

15:49

To back it up a step.

Are we talking about two separate things here?

Because people are saying I want something special.

And if they're saying I want to avoid the crowds and what they're potentially saying is I want to avoid the famous places, that's a little different.

These are not mutually exclusive.

Famous isn't the enemy.

Now what's a famous place?

16:06

For example, Kyo Musadera Temple or Fushimi Nari Shrine, the the two most.

Oh, and the Golden Pavilion, The three most popular places in Kyoto are famous and they are crowded, especially if you go at the wrong time, which is basically most of the middle of the day.

They're well known and they're well visited because they're pretty great.

16:25

I think.

I mean, we're local.

We're we're in the Kansai area.

We go to Kyoto often.

We'll go back on our own, especially if it's fall, for example, or cherry blossom season.

We love going to some of those places.

If we're taking clients or if we're taking friends, absolutely we'll we'll go to some of those places.

The point isn't to not go.

16:41

The point isn't to avoid it.

We had a client the other day asked us, OK, Ari, I understand your, your suggestion.

I go there early.

What if I can't get out?

Should I just cross it off my list?

No, please don't do that.

Like, if you want to go there, you should go there.

If you're OK with missing it and it's just not interesting to you.

You've seen the photos, you've seen the videos.

16:57

You think I'm going to give that a pass?

No problem.

There's nowhere that you have to go.

There's nothing that you have to do in Japan.

Conversely, avoiding something just because it's going to be crowded, that makes us kind of sad.

Yeah, don't worry about it.

Know what you're getting into and prepare for it.

And if you have to go to Kiyo Musadura Temple, for example, in the middle of the day, if that's the only time you can get there, it's still pretty great.

17:18

Now it's going to feel pretty crowded.

You're going to be walking up the street through the streets of Ninanzaka and San Nanzaka in the middle of the day.

Lot of people you're elbow to elbow, and there'll be some Japanese visitors, but you're probably, I'm going to call it 7030.

The vast majority of visitors are not Japanese.

17:35

You're, you're definitely in a place where it's not a hidden gem.

The rest of the world knows about it and the rest of the world is right here right now with you.

But that's OK.

Still a pretty cool place.

And when you get to Kyomi Zadeta temple, maybe you go in the afternoon, maybe you go for sunset.

17:51

It won't help you avoid the crowds, but that's a that's a great time.

The golden hour in that temple, that structure, it is beautiful.

It, it really is.

So places like Fushiminati Shrine or Golden Pavilion or Kyomi Zadeta Temple in Kyoto, they're not hidden gems, but they're gems.

18:06

In Hiroshima on Miyajima, for example, it's going to be pretty crowded when you go there unless you stay on the island overnight.

If you go as a day trip, it's going to be crowded.

Should you go?

Yeah, 100%.

If you're in that area, Miyajima, highly recommended.

This is the place that has the famous floating gate, the Todi gate that is in the water if it's high tide, but it's you can actually walk out to it on the ocean floor if it's low tide.

18:31

That's pretty cool.

What are some other gems that are not hidden?

People talk about Osaka Castle and then people talk about Himanji Castle as an alternative.

Less than an hour by train from Osaka at that point.

Similar timing from Kyoto for that matter.

18:47

Now Himanji Castle is no longer a hidden gem.

In fact, it might be experiencing its own little share of overtourism at times, and that does make us sad, but we still recommend it.

I wouldn't avoid it, just go strategically.

All that to say, maybe we shouldn't confuse popular with overrated.

19:05

And maybe when we're asking for hidden gems, maybe the question we should be asking instead is what can I do that's going to be special and memorable for me?

And I'll give you an example of that.

Let's say you're staying in Kyoto or Osaka and you plan a day trip to Himeji.

First of all, that castle is going to be memorable, isn't it?

19:22

Aki?

Don't finish there because I'm going to say there are a couple of gems.

Again, not hidden because Himanji gets plenty of visitors, but if you stay for lunch in Himanji, you can have one of the local specialties, which is anago.

That's eel.

Or maybe you want to have steak.

19:39

Himanji Wagyu Himanji beef is really good and you can't get it in too many places.

And I'll give you one more that's in Himanji.

Well, it's right near Himanji.

There is a temple.

If you think of all of the visitors that go to Himanji Castle, only a very few actually go onward to the temple.

19:54

You have to get there by combination of either bus or a car to the parking lot, which is the base of the hill, and then an aerial tram takes you up the hill.

And if you go there in the fall, it's going to be beautiful as well.

That temple is called Angioji, and it was in a movie, The Last Samurai.

20:13

You've got options along the way.

You can discover your own gems.

Talk about hidden gems in Japan, and more importantly, how to define your version of what a hidden gem is.

20:30

If you've asked for hidden gems, or if somebody has presented you the idea of hidden gems, what comes to mind?

I'm gonna throw some adjectives out there and maybe you can think about it.

Hidden gem?

Does that mean peaceful, local, uncrowded, unusual, beautiful, scenic, historical, all kinds of possibilities here, right?

20:52

So those are things to think about.

And again, there's no wrong answer out there.

There are only answers that best fit you.

Now, the next thing, once you've asked yourself those questions, the next thing to define where you're going to find your gems on your Japan trip, the next thing to think about is what are your constraints?

21:09

What are you willing to do, and what are the deal Breakers?

So, for example, earlier we mentioned Ginzan Onsen bullet train does not go to this place.

It is a gem, but it's not even served by a train.

You're going to have to at least get there by a bus.

21:26

Many people drive, many people take a rental car, and that actually gets us into a little bit of an area that we'll cover in a future episode.

But are you willing to rent a car during your time in Japan?

What other forms of transportation might be necessary to get to a gem?

A gem that's maybe hiding in plain sight or otherwise could be a ferry, it could be hiking, it could be multiple trains.

21:47

It could be, yes, the bullet train to a regional express to a local train, and then maybe a walk or a bus or something like that.

Yeah.

It could be the better part of a day.

And that's understandable.

If you're an American, for example, and you've got two weeks of vacation and you got the flights that are pretty long and the jet lag and all that, you're thinking, well, I don't know, that hidden gem or whatever I always calling it that, that kind of seems like it's going to waste a lot of our time.

22:09

That's OK, there's no problem with that.

Come back to Japan and and do that again another time.

That's up to you to decide.

Another way to experience some of these gems is by spending a night, spending another night, spending more time in that place.

22:24

But like we just alluded to, that comes with an opportunity cost because if you're spending nights in these places, that means you're not spending nights somewhere like Kyoto or Tokyo or Osaka.

Not to say you shouldn't stay in those places or that you have to stay in those places, but only you can decide what's the right answer to that question.

22:44

In other words, what we're really saying here is every destination when you travel in Japan, or really when you travel anywhere for that matter, every destination asks something of you, and every destination will give you something in return.

Yeah, we're talking about trade-offs.

Exactly.

23:00

We've got the definition of what a hidden gem is for you and the idea of trade-offs.

Add to that then #3 defining your interests.

So this is where we start to ask you, for example, if you're one of our clients, we're going to say, hey, what, what excites you?

What bores you?

What do you not want to see?

23:16

For example, recently in an episode in Kyoto, Javier and Laura tour guides, they said sometimes their clients tell them, I don't want to see any more shrines or temples.

There's nothing wrong with that.

That's OK.

There's no law that says you have to see X amount of shrines and temples in Japan.

That number could be 0 and it's OK, Don't worry about it.

23:34

What do you want to see?

What do you absolutely not want to see?

And then we start talking about what are your priorities.

Ultimately, this is how good itineraries, good travel itineraries, and good travel plans get built.

Priorities, trade-offs and deciding what's important to you and what you don't care about.

24:01

Where are these so-called hidden gems in Japan?

Well, I think we've established Aki, that those gems are everywhere, aren't they?

Or maybe they're nowhere.

Some of the gems are off the beaten path and some of them are hidden in plain sight.

Some of them aren't even hidden at all.

They're just fabulous for very good reasons.

24:19

The better question, the question to ask is this.

What kind of experience are you looking for?

And then ask yourself, what are you willing to do to have those experiences?

Maybe it's an extra train, or a rental car, or a ferry, or an early morning start.

24:37

Or maybe it's just simply being in a crowded area and deciding to turn down a side street, a little empty alleyway instead of following the crowd.

Yeah, go find your own gems, hidden or not.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode, we'd really appreciate it if you follow the Japan Travel Pros podcast on your app of choice and leave us a rating of review.

24:59

It helps more travelers discover the show, and it helps us keep these conversations going.

Thanks for listening all the way through.

Until next time, safe travels.